The 61-year-old—who shares daughters Malia Obama, 26, and Sasha Obama, 23, with Barack— continued, “That was an important test for me, just as a woman, as an independent person. Because like all women and a lot of people, I operate from guilt: What should I do? What is the best thing for everybody else? Because it’s easier for me to say, ‘Well, I did this because it was what I was supposed to do.'”

Referencing the divorce rumors that sprang from her absence, she cracked, “This couldn’t be a grown woman just making a set of decisions for herself, right? But that’s what society does to us.”

And while the default setting may be to just say yes because it’s easier in the short run, Michelle said, “We start actually, finally going, ‘What am I doing? Who am I doing this for?’ And if it doesn’t fit into the sort of stereotype of what people think we should do, then it gets labeled as something negative and horrible.”